Thursday, December 08, 2005

Hard Core Blogging Post

Remember the good ol' days when we would just ramble on in our blogs not caring who was reading and how they reacted? Well here is a post i will write straight on blogger (without even spell checking) ...

I was in Dubai for the day yesterday for a meeting with suppliers from France and Holland. Present at the meeting was also a Christian Palestinian from Jerusalem. I didn't stay overnight to save on costs to the co. and so that i do not miss 2 days of work (reminder: i work thursdays) and it turned out to be a pleasant meeting.

After business talk, we discussed politics and religion. I find everyday that Europeans are probably more intouch with Middle East politics and culture than most of us living here are. For the first time i was not afraid to say

"Hijab was not mentioned in the Quran"

"All the Abrahamic religions are the same, they call for us to believe in one God, and whether i eat the bottom part of a lamb, or if i eat pork or not does not make my religion"

Comments:
I second that.
 
Hijab was mentioned but for the Prophet's wives and not us, I think.
 
you weren't afraid about saying the hijab comment because there wasn't anyone there to argue with you
 
If you don't want to wear a hjab then don't. Those who wear them, should do so because it's their own choice.
Each shall be judged only by the merciful God.
 
personaly Hijab is a personal choice because of the responsibilities it carries with it, I will never inforce it on my daughter. But it was mentioned in the Quran;

“And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear therof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, or their brothers' sons or their sisters' sons, or their women or the servants whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex, and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O you Believers, turn you all together towards Allah, that you may attain Bliss.” (Quran 24:31).

Peace
 
Amen.
 
3asa ma shar mama :) take it easy babe
 
palforce: I took sheba's question literally, meaning that the word itself 'hijab' was not mentioned, and the ayya you have provided refers to it as 'khemaar'.

Not much difference I guess, but I do look into details :)
 
Thank you palforce & welcome to plushness,

My bossoms are not on my head :)

Shosho,
Whos translation of the Khemar woudl you take?
 
Point taken :-)

Beer wasn't mention in the quran but Allah forbid Khmar :P
 
Khmar=Khamr
 
Thank you Shosho,

Good point,About "not on my head". Hijab is a topic that has been debated for ever, and I made the mistake again by getting in it, can I take it back and become a reader instead of a commentor?! :-)

Peace
 
Dear Palforce,

We musnt be afraid to talk, nor discuss, nor disagree, and we musn't be emotional about our religion nor our culture, but we MUST be intelligent.

Yes, Cosmopolitans, Martini's, & Bloody Marries were never mentioned int he Quran either, but Everything that is Musker was mentioned, so that alone leaves us no space for any exceptions.

Btw, the Hijab was invented in the 70's because the Brotherhood decided that Mervat Ameen's legs were too nice (or something like that). No but seriously, before the 50's women were always decent, and slowly they started shortening their skirts and in the 70s there was an Islamic fundamentalism movement fueled by the socio-economic & political situation the Arab/Islamic countries were in after their new found independences and the flirtation of Arab intellectuals at the time with Socialist and Communist ideologies.
 
Its one thing to decide not to wear a hijab.. its another when u deny its existence in the book .. when u deny one thing then u deny the whole book..
 
Here, here Sheba...

What was mentioned in the Quraan was perhaps figurative, not literal. And I agree with Shosho that hijab specifically may have been intended for the Prophet's (PBUH)wives. As we have all seen in many ways, people can interpret things in the Holy book to their own advantage and purpose.

...And every Abrahamic religion mentions or advocates modesty in some form of "that they should draw their veils over their bosoms" ... not *hair* which is fine with me, since private bits on men or women should be by definition, private.

So, I found the Quraanic evidence for hijab as we know it put forth by Palforce, with all due respect, unconvincing and very open to interpretation.

Another thing. Historically, the rise to power of patriarchal society and culture has always, I repeat, *ALWAYS* been initiated by demonising the fertile attributes and sexuality of women, and portraying the essence of feminine power as shameful or dirty. It was a successful and perfect psychological ploy to remove female strength and influence from the minds of human beings- the majority of which are either fickle or lacking in independent thought-while degrading the nature of how God created women. Thus, by default, men were obviously the more "pure" and less devious sex, since they were not the ones in possession of seductive hair and bosoms that needed to be covered up so that their purity would remain untainted.

All so purely political. I never believed that covering up women from head to toe, face and all meant anything more than a negation and obliteration of the female energy and SELF.

The splitting apart of the energies of both men and women in this manner has only lead to the continued cycle of destruction and imbalance over the centuries, and will continues to do so as long as it stays this way.


MsB, who is not really a feminist per se, but a humanist who believes in the inherent but wasted goodness and positive strength of humanity.
(also it's late at night and I get philosophical and long-winded at this time of the day..)
 
Well I think khemaar is more transparent than 7ejab, which is nowadays a politically charged term.

The way I read the khemaar ayya is that women should cover their bosoms - that's the main priority. Because prior to that women would wear the khemar as a head cover just like the ghutra for men but without wrapping it to cover their bosoms, and this ayya aimed to ammend that.

I am certain there are many ways to interpret this ayya, but I think an important matter that needs to be taken into consideration is the type of clothes and fashions people used to wear back then, and from comparing the dress code before and after islam we will have a better understanding of what this ayya meant.

Peace to all :)
 
Yeah women used to walk around topless and in thongs only....Playboy mansion style

In those bra-less days the average female bosom would be 3cm above the ground..MAX

So when God orderd women to cover thier bosoms he took the length of their breasts into consideration. Thuse when they managed to cover the entire breast , they would be covering thier whole body too. If they didnt do that , they would be tripping all ove the place and ending up in wells or face down on the burning sand.

Now after the invention of the Bra, there is no need to cover anything.
 
All the comments on this post relate to my comment on the Hijab (a scarf), while in the following comment i say that all religions are the same. Does this indicate that all of you are in agreement that all Abrahamic religions are the same?
 
I disagree with your "all Abrahamic religions are the same" remark.

Maybe initially they were intended to be the same, but as time progressed they changed and today there's a lot more to being a Jew or a Christian or even a Muslim than beliving in one God.

If I belive there's no god but one God does that make me a Muslim?
Most say no, that's not enough.

So what do I qualify as with beliving in only one God? This is something I've been searching to find out for a long time, with little luck.
 
sheba why do insist to be " miss i know it all" ??!

all islamic muftis say its farth, and you say its not. wut do you know ?! do you have a degree in islamic studies ?!

i've noticed that the hejab issue is giving you a hard time, you've mentioned several times earlier that hejab isnt farth... you know wut? just dont argue when it comes to religion... if you dont believe in hejab then its up to you. but dont walk around saying its not farth when it is. which is gonna turn bad on you in the after life !. no harm feelings, bs entai ga3dah tafteen mn kaifech,,, and this isnt right !.

Peace
 
I beleive human has brain to use it :)
 
Mother courage: there is a book by a scholar who argued that hejab as we now it today never existed in the heyday of Islam, so it's not something Sheba invented. Ask around for it since I cannot recall the title.

As for the statement "All the Abrahamic religions are the same", I would say instead:
"All the Abrahamic religions come from the same source and worship the same God, but that does not necessarily make them the same"
 
q8sultana,
you bring up two important points, but i think i lost you when you said "So what do I qualify as with beliving in only one God? "

And you seem to be in conflict with what the religions were intended to be (and i assume by intended, you mean intended by God, our Creator, Allah?) and what they have become to be.

In this comment we must differentiate between the will of God and the act of humans. The will of God was that His word come to us via His prophets and His messengers, but humans deviated from this intention for their own benefit. Religion was and is largely influenced by government for centuries. And sadly, although the Quran remains pure and untouched, those who find it to their benefit have reduced Islam to the engagement in differences, which is exactly that which our religion calls against.
Our scholars spend their time decided which is the RIGHT way to sit in our prayer, and their word or fatwah will make every act before that a sin, or a bid3a.

It is funny how these things work, and if you know the insides of the Islamic schools of thoughts (the Salaf from the Brotherhood, for example), you would have no doubt have heard them calling the other sect sinners because they do not follow the same rituals to the last detail.

Now this split is not only against our Islamic teachings of unity, but it also goes against our Islamic teachings of wronging other humans, as none of us are allowed to say who is an unbeliever (takfeer) and it to my surprise and bewilderment, it goes against the very strict Islamic teachings of taqdees (saint-hood).

Yes, there isn't a man/woman which we call a saint, but the Salaf have an Emir Mu2meneen, and each of the other groups have a leader too which they receive orders and fatawi from without debate.

I am glad that you are thinking about what makes us Muslim, and my answer is that when it comes to faith, its always from your gutt. What is right is what feels right.

A recently heavily debated subject is which is Allah, the caring and compassionate or the Jabbar?

Why isn't the love of God and His merci enough to make us good people and good Muslims? And if Allah wanted us to be haunted by His power and ability to punish us why don't we start everything with "Bismi Allah al3atheem alJabbar"? for example?

Think, it will always make you a stronger believr & never underestimate yourself.
 
Mother Courage,

Please read my comment to Sultana above, in it is a reply to you. I hope you get it, and there is no need to be charged with emotion because someone is asking YOU to THINK.

Which muftis do you read for? Or follow? And why do you choose them to be your guides into Islam?

Ms Courage, these questions are not for me, but for you. I am free to think and question and debate and believe. Are you? And if you are, then why have you taken offence at my thoughts, comments, statements, ideas and/or questions?
 
Shosho,
Why do we zoom in our differences and zoom out our similarities?

Isn't the essence that which counts?
 
I think we need to spread a couple of "coexist" t shirts around

http://www.shopkitson.com/index.php?pageId=3&productId=3924&categoryId=43&startFrom=


Oh yes, and the name of the scholar is something sha7roor.. the book is called "alketab wal qur'an" something like that.. they sell it in lebanon

Speaking of which, I find it rather amusing when someone tells me that covering the face is prioritized over covering the boobs.. which brings me to ask all guys, which do you find yourself resisting to masterbate over.. a D cup or a fake mole right above a trout pout??
 
Hard core indeed!
 
Sheba, personally I tend to look at the big picture without overlooking tiny details, and I don't think we need to be the same in order to appreciate and love one another - after all we live on the same planet, is there anything more common than that?
 
I got on a hate list because of this post :)
 
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